Author Topic: Skyrim  (Read 40821 times)

Offline Silver Sorrow

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Skyrim
« on: November 11, 2011, 10:15:39 PM »
Haven't had much of a chance to play yet, but installation was charming.

I popped the DVD in, Steam opened up and installed the game. It also patched it.  :ss-disbelief   So. I started it up and Steam went through its typically stupid installing directx nonsense, and I was informed that I had to put the DVD back in the drive. Okay, I seethed, why do I need the DVD in the drive if it's running through Steam??

Turns out it ws probably just a first-time disc-check. Which is good. Actually, I found through some reading that you can bypass Steam altogether by opening the exe directly. Novel concept, that.  ::)  And I didn't need the DVD to play.

Stand by for more. BECAUSE I SAID SO.
An interview with Kim Kardashian? Who wants to see that? I'd rather see an interview with the mortician's assistant who had to piece her head back together so they could have an open-casket funeral.

Offline Silver Sorrow

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2011, 02:49:40 AM »
A few of the problems I've experienced so far (because it's easier to find the bad in things, especially when it comes to wonky console ports):

- Volume too low/soft...usually. When I got to Riverwhatever, the night sounds kicked in full volume.  :ss-ahhhh

- 3rd person vanity camera is batshit. Left is right and right is left. Plus, it isn't centered. I hate it when the camera isn't centered.

- Movement feels awkward; looking up and down and side to side is something of an ordeal, even with the sensitivity cranked all the way up. It feels like I'm fighting with the mouse, to the point where there are a couple of muscles in my forearm that're giving me shit.

- Remapping the keys seems to screw things up. I can't bind items to hotkeys or Favorites, for some reason.

- There's no paper doll (or whatever) in inventory...as far as I know. I can look at a pair of boots and spin 'em around every which way, but no way to look at my ugly mug.

Screenshots:

Dead Imperials.



This is the best I could do with the weird camera.



Initial impression: cool dragons, game looks good...but I see problems that might hinder my mod ideas. Right now, I just don't know if I'll still be playing this game in five years.  :P
An interview with Kim Kardashian? Who wants to see that? I'd rather see an interview with the mortician's assistant who had to piece her head back together so they could have an open-casket funeral.

Offline OrlopRat

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2011, 03:43:58 AM »
Right now, I just don't know if I'll still be playing this game in five years.  :P

  I probably will be. If I follow my usual pattern with ES games, It'll be a couple of years before I start playing it. That works out though, by the time I finally got to MW and OB they were all patched up and modded to hell.

   Plus, some insane and sadistic fellow just made a monstrous OB mod, and it's going to take me at least a year and a half to cycle through all the hairs and try on the all the armor... :ss-ahhhh
Tiens, voilà du boudin...

Offline The Rogue Wolf

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2011, 01:56:46 PM »
Some guy with a terrible voice and an inflated sense of self went and started a Let's Play!

Do not click this link, whatever you do.
"Choice one: we flank them using what military men called tactics, and what religious men call divine inspiration. Or, we charge at them head on screaming various obscenities, in what military men call bravery and religious men also call divine inspiration."

Offline OrlopRat

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2011, 03:33:13 PM »
Well, let's not be too hard on this "Wolf" guy, whoever he may be. I mean, it's a fact that only pathetic losers who need a life actually post videos on Youtube.

We should not criticise, but rather feel pity.....even if it is entertaining and informative. :lol:
Tiens, voilà du boudin...

Offline Starfox

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2011, 01:05:58 AM »
Modders will definitely have work with this one.

Positive: looks good enough (I say "enough" because I don't really care for the imperial female faces that no matter how much you try to tweak them still looks pretty bad); the engine just crashed on me once over 15 hours of play which is far better than FNV and Fallout 3 and considerably better than Oblivion and Morrowind... Improved stability, always a good thing; On my system the engine runs on High with 8xAA and 8xAF without any stress so that's a good point too (I didn't tried Ultra yet though) but considering how smooth it is on high I might give it a chance... Quests are fairly interesting (I tend to stay away from the main quest though as per Oblivion experience).

Negative: there is one absolutely negative thing for me and it's the user interface. I've known my share of bad interface designs during the years but I think this might be the absolute worst, or close. Confused and confusing, exploiting the mouse very badly -- obviously it wasn't design for mouse. When I intend to store ingredients in a container, I actually expect (what a foolish idea) a left-click to send them to the container and not actually use them. I ate a dozen of alchemy ingredients before realizing that I was not storing them. No I should have hit the R key instead. And their "constellation" of skills may be pretty but far from user friendly -- no way you can know exactly where you stand at a quick glance. In short I have about no compliment to make for the interface. It's probably the first thing modders should attempt to rework. Here's an idea: "delete it entirely and start over from scratch".
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 01:21:19 AM by Starfox »


Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -- A. Einstein

Offline bobdog

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2011, 06:49:38 AM »
When it comes to changing key bindings, I've had good luck using GlovePIE (http://glovepie.org/), an emulator that allows you to take the game's key bindings and substitute with your own. Might work for you for Skyrim.

Offline Starfox

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2011, 07:10:42 PM »
Thanks for the link bodog. It's not a matter of key bindings though. It's just the user graphic interface that is that bad. With a gamepad I'm sure that there would be no problem but with the mouse... Let's say that it is so badly implemented that a lot of things can happen you didn't wish. As a matter of fact now I'm relying mainly on the keyboard (when I'm in the inventory, storage screen... things like that) to reduce the number of "misfired" clicks. It's not a mouse friendly interface, that's all.

Now an interesting anecdote that tends to prove that AI in games would still need to be refined.

So I was on my way on my trusty horse (one of my trusty horses -- RIP the others because those things die faster than a fly caught into a spray and at any rate much faster than in Oblivion) when suddenly a dragon attack me (which is pretty common, they are pestering you on a regular basis). One minute later the combat was over thanks to my character being almost a master in Destruction by now. I was collecting my reward when suddenly appeared a single highway(wo)man in studded armor with a little dagger who started the introduction with "Give me your gold!". And there I was stunned. I mean... really? She certainly couldn't help but notice -- the bones were still smoking -- that I just downed a dragon... a dragon for God Sake! How long did she really expect to last? Did she have a death wish? No way to know because she didn't let me ask. Had I been in the game I would have had a long look at the still smoking carcass then a significant look to her, possibly accompanied with a smile: "You really don't want to do that"; a whole band of bandits could have been a threat but she was alone. Instead the game offered me several options from which I chose Intimidate but for some reason that didn't work. "Do you think you can scare me?" she said. Then I chose "I don't have time for this", and really I meant it, to which she said "Don't you dare turn your back on me!" and proceeded to mug me with her little dagger. The dragon lasted a whole minute, she lasted about a whole... second (and that's because my hands drawing animation was playing).

Yep AI needs improvements, in general, not only in Skyrim. In real life she would have seen a guy taking care of a dragon with just a few scratches she would have thought "No way I'm going to rob this guy" and made a quick exit before I noticed her which was surely the most viable option available to her. When I encounter a foe that is too tough for me I "get the hell out of here" myself without dishonor because one calls that tactical retreat -- I eventually come back later with a few more levels and persuasive arguments. So I try to justify the whole thing by a miscalculation on her part. She probably thought that I was so exhausted after the dragon that I would be an easy prey. But it's a semi-justification. Games AI just don't acknowledge tactical retreat as a solution. It's always, win or die. The day when AI will be able to make the difference between a risky but winnable fight and a serious death threat that will be so much life-like.

Best of all... I was really prepared to let her go. At this point it's not like I needed the training (with the very little threat she posed) and I had my own business to take care of which was much more serious.

At least she didn't suffer... much. The million volts I sent in her teeth made sure of that  :lol:
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 07:15:28 PM by Starfox »


Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -- A. Einstein

Offline Dough with Fish

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2011, 10:37:39 PM »
Out traipsing around, looking for caves to explore or whatever and a dragon comes screaming out of the sky. Our fight takes us into a group of giants protecting their herd of mammoths, and they join in helping me take down the dragon. We kill it, and then about half a second later I have four giants and a mammoth all attacking me at once, I lasted a minute or two, I was still recovering after the fight with the dragon after all. But my poor, poor companion. For some reason three of the giants and the mammoth focused on her first, and I am pretty sure she became the first citizen of Tamriel to achieve space flight. Love Bethesda games and their wonky physics.

Offline Starfox

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2011, 03:11:05 PM »
Hey, welcome back Doug, long time no see. How have been doing?

I finally abandon the use of horses in Skyrim. This is totally pointless. They cost a thousand gold each and quickly end up dead in totally idiotic conditions. First As for your companions, your foes are likely to go after your horse first, even when you're unmounted and that you attack them directly. When they don't go after him, it's the stupid horse that goes after them (a bit like "what's is name" in Oblivion, that you receive from the Dark Brotherhood, except that this one was set as essential so it couldn't die). There your horse decide to fight and is killed in a few blow although most of the time when his health runs low he's wise enough to flee (which forces you to track him afterward, oh joy). But then he may flee a) right into a precipice to his doom or b) right into the arms of a troll or other nuisance who finish him (both actually happened to me). If the only concept of having horses in this game is to have them killed as quick as possible and buy a new one I don't see the point. They could have at least given them a decent health or make them level up with the player (I don't have the impression that happens). 


Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -- A. Einstein

Offline OrlopRat

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2011, 05:01:23 PM »
 Oblivion has the same AI problem, in that enemies will ignore you and go for your companion, whether it's a horse, human, or something else. And the horses die if you look at them wrong. Slof's horse mod at least made them essential, the "attack companions" first thing has been (sort of) fixed by mods. Which I assume will be made for Skyrim eventually.

   After the cute elf races and sexy armor, of course.  :lol:

EDIT: Princess Stomper is a fine modder, but the horse's are Slof's. :hammerhead:
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 11:52:12 AM by OrlopRat »
Tiens, voilà du boudin...

Offline Silver Sorrow

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2011, 12:26:52 AM »
They've already started on the armor and nude females...I, for one, welcome a cute elf mod with keen anticipation. I mean, have you seen the elves in this game?? Morrowind character aesthetics at work here... :ss-yuck

I usually make it a point not to mess with mods until I've played the game first, but with Bethesda products, that principle has thrown a chair through the window and leapt to its death. I'm currently trying out clean skin and faces mods, because...gah. :ss-yuck  <---- Again.

But besides all of the useless crap mods already available for Skyrim -- for example, there's even a Pokemon mod -- I did find at least one highly useful mod: On-screen Interface Key Fix, which works...mostly...for me. I still can't assign the 1-8 keys, but at least Favorites works now.

If that doesn't work, Interface Hard Coded Key Tweaks might. I haven't tried it. It seems complicated, which means that it will work perfectly for everyone in the entire world except for me.

So anyway, I'm getting used to it: running is still too friggin' slow and I should probably fiddle with the FOV before I make myself sick, but it's become more intriguing once I plunged in. Still wondering how difficult making a custom race will be...

...but screenshots:

"Of course I'm a horse, a horse of course. Why, what have you heard?"


Crap. I just chipped a tooth on my ice cream.


Death is not only the great equalizer, but it's also into equal opportunity.


Current character pic. Love that Steel armor.
"You don't think the helmet is too much, do you? You'd tell me, right?"


The weapon stance for the two-handed weapons is awesome:


...so is it any surprise that I called him Ragnar?


Quote
Plus, some insane and sadistic fellow just made a monstrous OB mod

That bastard...let's go kill 'im! Eh...waitaminit...


Quote
Some guy with a terrible voice and an inflated sense of self went and started a Let's Play!

And people wondered what Regis Philbin would do with his retirement. Oh...NOT Regis? Okay, great. Well done, then! :lol:

Wow...Dough pops in! And me without my cummerbund. ;D

I'm guessing that horses will be fixed not long after the editor's released (and a very special thanks to Bethesda for opting against its timely release ::)), so...I just know that I'll be trying to fix the running speed.

Let's see...personal experience...ah! Well...I learned early on that giants aren't my friends. I don't know if they're different in other locations, but I do know that hostile giants hit rather astoundingly hard.

In two instances so far, I've been warned away from certain areas, which was different. The first time was right after I left the first dungeon. I walked up a hill towards a cmap with some people, and a woman drew her bow and told me to back off. Being a level one n00b and unfamiliar with the combat physics yet, I walked away. The second time was on my way to find some guy's family sword. I wandered by what turned out to be the Ritual Stone, and was threatened by a robed lass. She was a necromancer and needed to die anyway.

So I guess the AI's okay as long as a horse isn't involved. :-\
An interview with Kim Kardashian? Who wants to see that? I'd rather see an interview with the mortician's assistant who had to piece her head back together so they could have an open-casket funeral.

Offline The Rogue Wolf

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2011, 12:45:21 AM »
The AI actively warning you off (instead of just flat out going from docile to hostile) was one of the two great improvements I've run into so far; the other was how there are finally DEGREES of stealth visible rather then "now they see me, now they don't". Seeing as how I'm playing a stealth/skirmish scout build, both of these developments are favorable to me.
"Choice one: we flank them using what military men called tactics, and what religious men call divine inspiration. Or, we charge at them head on screaming various obscenities, in what military men call bravery and religious men also call divine inspiration."

Offline Silver Sorrow

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2011, 06:41:25 PM »
Much better than the on/off system, yeah...and I really do like the warnings from potential hostiles: saved my giblets when I wandered too close to a Giant gathering spot. The big guy grunts, the club comes off his shoulder, and I mince backwards at top coward. I'll be back in full Daedric, just you wait...

I'm at level 10 now, and I'm seeing Orcish weapons; I saw an Orcish battleaxe in the Blacksmith's inventory in Whiterun, and I had to have it. Right afterwards I finished a quest for the Companions and got a better battleaxe. Oh, well.

I still need to buy a house. I'm carrying too much crap. Pack-rats should not play RPGs.

I found a horned steel helmet:

It's like a cow mated with a Pickelhaube.

FYI, this sign --

-- means an alchemy supplier. It is not a barbershop. Live and learn.

There's already a nude mod for women. And it's pretty good, considering. I combined a clean skin texture with a muscular normal map mod and I got something interesting:

 

and

 

Yup. Muscular chicks. While I am by no means a realist when it comes to these games, I think it fits in nicely with the hard-bitten, weathered females of Skyrim.

(You may have noticed that my models are dead. This is because I'm not playing a woman right now.)

Speaking of interesting, I ran into this in the course of a quest:

This quest is not developing how I initially thought...  :purplelaugh:

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An interview with Kim Kardashian? Who wants to see that? I'd rather see an interview with the mortician's assistant who had to piece her head back together so they could have an open-casket funeral.

Offline Silver Sorrow

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Re: Skyrim
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2011, 04:28:08 PM »
Pinheads.

That's the fourth time a dragon has disappeared on me; I'd see one circling and maybe get its attention (depends on how good my bowshot was), but then it'd just fly off. One guess is that there just isn't enough room for it to land in some cases. This last instance was a tree-intensive gully outside a mine. That may be one reason. Or it could be that someone screwed the pooch yet again. Kind of detracts from the whole random encounter thing.

Speaking of which, I ran all over the place between levels 3 and 13, and I didn't see one dragon...and then I wandered next to a dragon wall and one was there. I'm guessing that right now there's someone screaming GET THESE DRAGONS OFFA ME!! Such is the nature of randomness.

Okay, so far:

I've run some errands for a couple of Daedra princes. So far, their quests leave Oblivion's Daedra quests bleeding in the dirt. Azura, Peryite, Clavicus, and Meridia were happy with me. Dagon, however, was decidedly not.

Once again, the leveled armor and weapons leave a lot to be desired. I was forcibly reminded that this isn't Oblivion, where you automatically find the next tier of armor when you level up enough. I had been ignoring Smithing, other than when I needed to upgrade my gear a bit, and when I realized that I had missed out on Orcish almost entirely, I finally decided that I was not going to be picking up Daedric off a bandit at some point.

This both thrilled (no bandits 10 levels above me!) and disappointed me. So doing a little digging, I learned that the only surefire way to get Daedric (and the dragon-material armors) was to max out Smithing, spend the perks, and make my own damn evil armor. So far, I'm only in the mid-70's in Smithing...

...which is pretty easy. (The new philosophy seems to be one of leveling up faster, which I wholeheartedly endorse; I hated taking forever to level up my weapon skill of choice.) All you have to do is get a buttload of iron ingots and leather straps, then make a zillion iron daggers.  :lol:

In my addled wanderings ("oh, look! something on my compass! what is it?"), I stumbled on some Dwemer ruins, which is what I was hoping for. Sadly, it was locked and needed a key.

Shit.

So I wandered off. I found another one not too long afterwards, and the same thing...

...I wondered: do they REALLY want me to explore?? If so, why lock half the ruins I find?!?

Not as bad as that, but you see what I mean. I hope.

One thing that bothers me is that sometimes my Shouts have no effect on the target, or don't work at all. Maddening.

Screenshots later. Too stupidly tired to continue.
An interview with Kim Kardashian? Who wants to see that? I'd rather see an interview with the mortician's assistant who had to piece her head back together so they could have an open-casket funeral.

 

everything