Author Topic: Thief 4  (Read 7403 times)

Offline SlyFoxx

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2013, 09:18:22 AM »
As I read further it just gets worse.  Motion capture?  Why would you need to motion capture a thief that shouldn't be seen in the first place!  Oh yes...so they can make a 3rd person consoletarded steaming pile of insert noun of your choice here.

Thief is like a wheel and there is a reason that round is the preferred shape.  You break into interesting places, nix all the goodies while gathering information maybe crack a skull or three or eight and leave.  In the interim you sell off the loot for hard cash and marinate on what you've learned and decide what to do next.  Lather, rinse, repeat a dozen or so times and you have a nice game.   

In the meanwhile it seem the devs have taken 3-4 years just to figure out what kind of game they want to make.  If they wanted to make a Thief game it seems to me we would have had it sometime in 2011. 

Offline bobdog

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2013, 06:45:45 AM »
Thief 3 did some of that 3rd-person actions, if I remember correctly. But I think they're talking about active cutscenes that would feature nu-Garrett speaking to someone else. While the old Thief games used that hand-drawn style of cutscene, these probably will be more live action, like DX:HR.

It's hard to mess with a game series with such a pedigree, but I'm all for more Thief adventures, even if it's not exactly like days of old. I would love to see much larger City maps that are more free-roaming, like what Thief 3 did, but much much larger. Then you meet people / steal clues to something larger, and then you're able to move to a new level outside the City.


UPDATE: This preview just out, and sounds a bit more positive. Only time will tell.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 11:33:03 AM by bobdog »

Offline Starfox

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2013, 11:38:57 AM »
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On Rock, Paper, Shotgun: Why Thief Russelled Up A Different Voice Actor.

Their reason is crap. If it was just a question of doing voice acting and mocap at the same time, they wouldn't choose a guy with a voice so distinctively far away from Stephen's... And with an accent. They would have tried to find someone with at least a similar voice or that "may sound" like Garrett. It's quite a mess actually and goes back to what I already said... Why didn't they choose their own main character instead of Garrett if they wanted to go this way? It certainly would have been easier for them and not be a matter of debate. Or maybe they did just want people to debate it for PR reasons. At that point, keeping "Garrett" as the main protagonist only makes sense from a PR crappy move perspective. Same goes with the title "Thief" instead of "Thief 4" (imagine how many people who never played Thief will hear high praises about Thief and will naturally go for the most recent one instead of the old one -- we'll have to start designing the original Thief by its French title "The Dark Project"; the first Thief was never released under the title "Thief" in France, it only went with its secondary title).

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these probably will be more live action, like DX:HR.

But that they don't just confine the "more live action" to the cutscenes is exactly what's worrying me. In DX:HR, stealth is just an option, maybe encouraged by the devs but just an option all the same. It's quite possible to do the whole game guns blazing and taking down every target in range. That doesn't work in a true Thief game... Or at least, that shouldn't work because the more I read and see and the more I believe that going mano a mano with every guard or even several at the same time will be a viable option and if it is, where's the point of stealth? Gaining Steam achievements?

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It's all moot hand-wringing and useless nashing of teeth until we see the final result.

But once released complaining and/or rambling furiously will be the same exercise in futility because "what's done is done", "fans are entitled whiners" and so on... EA/Bioware, DA2 and the ME3 ending proved that.

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lousy stinkin' Francophonic bacon-loving bastards

For some reason, I resent the "Francophonic" part of this statement... especially when associated to bacon...  :biglaugh:
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 12:04:24 PM by Starfox »


Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -- A. Einstein

Offline Silver Sorrow

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2013, 09:10:45 PM »
What Canadians call "bacon," we call "ham."  ;D
An interview with Kim Kardashian? Who wants to see that? I'd rather see an interview with the mortician's assistant who had to piece her head back together so they could have an open-casket funeral.

Offline Doc_Brown

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2013, 01:37:43 PM »
A few days old, but here's another preview for your perusal.

EDIT: And here's a new article I'm sure some of you will find relevent.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 10:15:10 AM by Doc_Brown »
Roads?  Where we're going we don't need roads.

Offline Starfox

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2013, 12:37:29 PM »
What is amusing is to see people comparing the upcoming Thief to Dishonored. So I wanted to know why and played Dishonored (I was going to play it later anyway). Sorry to say that Dishonored has nothing to do with Thief. Sure, Arkane studio placed some references in there (like a guard saying to another guard "You're such choffer!" which I suppose is Dishonored version of "taffer") there's even a scene late in the game that is a direct tribute to the training mission of the original Thief, you know the part when an instructor says "Good, I didn't see you coming". But I think those were there as a "winky" eye rather than a serious attempt at emulating Thief (they did the same in Dark Messiah were the master thief armor has a "G" embroidered).

That aside, the main character is not a Thief, he's a bodyguard who turns assassin. Then he doesn't know how to open even the simplest lock without the key and the only thief-y action available is to pickpocket people. An then a good part of the gameplay is spent using supernatural powers which is not the Thief we all know. I'm not saying that Dishonored is not a good game, in fact it is very good, but if there is a comparison to be made, that would rather be some  kind of Deus Ex in a steampunk universe. That would be a bit closer to the gameplay you're confronted too since it's perfectly possible to blow your way through the levels killing everyone even though it's preferable that you refrain from blood lust for story purpose (best outcome is achieved if you kill a minimum number of people or none at all -- which makes for a weird assassin to begin with). And then there's the stealth system. In Dishonored, hiding behind cover works very well... Hiding in shadows doesn't work particularly well. It works if your enemies are 50 meters away from you, it doesn't work if they are 20 meters away (even at night) -- Dishonored stealth seems to rely much more if not exclusively on the enemy line of sight. And there is a good part of the game in full light anyway.

So I fail to see why Eidos would be nervous about having their Thief title compared to Dishonored unless they really botched the stealth mechanics so much that it plays like Dishonored.

Dishonored is definitely a good game... Textures are shit though (inferior in quality to the ones in another of Arkane titles,  Dark Messiah Of Might and Magic). In this day and age, you'd expect better. First time I saw how bad the textures were, I though I'd made a setting error in the options but, no... Textures were set to the highest possible quality in the game.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 01:17:45 PM by Starfox »


Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -- A. Einstein

Offline Silver Sorrow

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2013, 08:48:35 AM »
I just started Dishonored -- a relative bargain at $30 -- and I have to agree: it's nothing like Thief, as far as I can tell. Perhaps...and I have a really bad feeling about this...perhaps they're comparing the new Thief to Dishonored, due to their similarities; i.e., the new Thief will play like Dishonored, rather than like the original Thief.

:ss-fan

I think I'm gonna throw up.

As for Dishonored: on the bright side, the crappy textures *do* allow the game to run smoothly. ::)  And the characters are...well...goofy-looking in a stupidly ridiculous way. and I mean that with all the bitter malice I can muster. What's the point of getting a new video card if the new games look as if the entire art team is tripping balls? ("All our textures are a paradigm-punishing 256x256! Also, Ted has been communicating with the squirrels and we deem their demands to be acceptable.") I watched some guy with enormous hands gesture at me throughout a conversation and I kept screaming in my head what the hell is going on here??
An interview with Kim Kardashian? Who wants to see that? I'd rather see an interview with the mortician's assistant who had to piece her head back together so they could have an open-casket funeral.

Offline Starfox

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2013, 06:16:18 AM »
Well, texturing is definitely not Dishonored strong point (gun, blade and equipment are much better looking and textured than the characters)... Neither is the story; you can see some portions of it coming from a mile away... About 1 hour into the story, I wasn't wondering if "someone" was going to betray me but "when" that would happen. The "inquisition" thematic with the Overseer church is not particularly brand new either So that leaves the gameplay and freedom (3 different paths just to reach Dr Galvani's office in mission 2 depending on if you upgraded Blink or not). Those are the areas where the title shines and bear a resemblance to Deus Ex (Thief has a similar freedom but NOT the same gameplay) with generally several routes to reach locations and of course the ability to merely assassinate your targets or to go the "poetic" route with a non lethal approach which often reveals to be more cruel than a blade in the throat. You can even witness the result for yourself in one case If you "spare" High Overseer Campbell, you can find him again later along with a letter he wrote and then you realize that the charitable thing to do would be killing him (so I don't because the guy's a crooked perverted bastard anyway).

There's also the fact that the game is completely unpredictable. The guards patrols are not entirely scripted so it does little good to spend several minutes studying them as they are likely to change on a moment notice. If you restart a mission/game, you generally find that most of the guards positions have changed...  Truth is, I don't now if it's a good thing or not. It certainly does make thing more lively but on the other hand you can abandon all hope to perfectly plan your next move (and there again a major difference with standard Thief) when each guard is susceptible to change route every 10 seconds. I suppose it's the purpose of the thing though... I found myself more than once making a move on faith alone, hoping that a damn guard wouldn't decide to change course right at that moment. It's the reason why the Blink power is your absolute best friend (along with Dark Vision) when sneaking around as it allows you to bypass some guards entirely or to reach a high route when you realize that going at ground level won't do. As a matter of fact I think I "blinked" my way most of the time in this game rather than calculate paths to avoid patrols (which I would do in Thief... or in Deus Ex for that matter).  Blinking from cover to cover is the best way to sneak in this game...

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I watched some guy with enormous hands gesture at me throughout a conversation and I kept screaming in my head what the hell is going on here??

I didn't exactly noticed that on my first playthrough but now... I do... So... thanks  :purplelaugh: The cigarettes are pretty big too...


Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -- A. Einstein

Offline The Rogue Wolf

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2013, 04:50:30 PM »
Demo video available right here. (I've cued it right at the the beginning of the actual gameplay; you're welcome. :ok: )

It's... I dunno. It does have a much more open feel than Deadly Shadows did (or even a couple of missions in the first two games), it's nice to see that there's a variety of routes and ways to handle obstacles, and the way Focus is handled doesn't seem terribly done. It also seems like our boy G finally ditched the tap shoes. :lol: But I'm not at all comforted by the "XP" counter that comes up, and the "swoop" mechanic may end up taking some of the challenge of bypassing guards (though it is unquestionably cool, and maybe closer to Garrett's abilities in cutscenes than previous games could get)... not to mention that I don't like that the game automatically strings an arrow when the bow is drawn.

But we ARE getting our rope arrows back! Hopefully we'll see a return to the vertical gameplay and multiple heights that the first two Thief games had. I'm cautiously optimistic.
"Choice one: we flank them using what military men called tactics, and what religious men call divine inspiration. Or, we charge at them head on screaming various obscenities, in what military men call bravery and religious men also call divine inspiration."

Offline Silver Sorrow

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2013, 08:52:39 PM »
Thanks for cueing (cuing? I can't spell anymore) it to the interesting part.  :lol:

The location seems far less-cramped and more complicated than TDS (which, I insist, was an experiment to see if 64x64x64 maps could actually sell games), and that should make for either enjoyment or aggravation, depending on how smoothly Garrett moves, how touchy the AI is, and so on.

The XP thing is a concern; I'm not sure what that will mean, exactly. Plus, I'm not just overly thrilled with the "takedown" mechanic. I mean, yes: it's nice that it's a possibility, but it seems counter to the whole stealthy *thief* concept. It seems more like something, say, an assassin would need. ("I have a simple job planned tonight: break into a fat nobleman's house, snap his neck like a chicken bone, and make off with all the loot I can fit in my pants.")

Also of note is the idea that shooting a guard in the head with a broadhead will keep anyone from noticing you.  :lol:

The Swoop thing...well, it's intriguing. I think of it as a cross between DXHR's cover-switching and Skyrim's stealth roll. That might be something I could use.

Rope arrows. Finally.  :love:

And it seems like Garrett has a few more toys to help him...


...uh...yeah. And I like the idea of guard dogs, but I wonder if the game will try and make me feel guilty if I fire-arrow one of them. Because I will most likely light a few up along the way. And I won't feel guilty about it. It's hard to feel guilt when you're dancing like a maniac.

(I'll let you all sort out whether that refers to Michael Sembello or Metallica. Honestly, I can't tell anymore.)
An interview with Kim Kardashian? Who wants to see that? I'd rather see an interview with the mortician's assistant who had to piece her head back together so they could have an open-casket funeral.

Offline Starfox

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2013, 11:01:16 AM »
Curiously the thing that upset me the most has nothing to do with Thief... But why am I required to subscribe an account on Google to verify my age (like if people weren't able to lie about their age on registration forms anyway). Sure let's get me another account with another password... not like if I already had a gazillion of them (seriously I'm forced to use a password software to keep track of all this stuff).  I loved the "Gender: Female/Male/Other" question though (and no, transsexuals don't count as  "other", they're either male or female, period).

So yeah, about Thief, or at least this video...  The XP counter is pretty disturbing especially because there should be no particular reason to have one in a Thief game, unless it suddenly became a RPG. I also note the presence of console specific features like the crosshair changing when your aiming is good to hit what you want to hit. Far is the time when you had to know your arrows and their ballistic properties (In T1 and TMA I'm able to hit something very far just by estimation and that gives a sense of accomplishment, the game telling me "You can fire now" is a bit out of place). I'm not fan of the constantly notched arrow either.

Something that isn't shown in this video and that is however pretty damn important because in any Thief game one has to use it a lot... it's lockpicking. So sure he's apparently able to force his way through a window but I'm hoping it's not the extent of the "new" Garrett abilities in that regard.

The return of rope arrows is sweet provided you can use them enough for them to matter.

I can see now why people would be confused about Thief in regard to Dishonored. The gameplay is undoubtedly different but in some places the design choices are pretty similar (like the guards uniforms -- I don't know there's just something about the guards in this video that cries "Dishonored"; maybe it's just the helmets -- or your hands floating constantly in front of you when you crouch). However the gameplay appears to be closer to standard Thief rather than the Dishonored "I stealthily blink my way around" approach, which is a good thing.

But well, between a video and playing the real thing, there's always a difference. So we'll see.


Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -- A. Einstein

Offline The Rogue Wolf

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2013, 04:26:37 PM »
There's one thing I forgot to mention that bothered me- near the end, a fairly large wooden crate (that has to weigh at least a couple hundred pounds even if it's empty) is knocked off its rope and crashes to the ground... and nobody reacts at all, not even the guard about fifty feet away. I'm HOPING that it was an oversight of some sort.

Something that isn't shown in this video and that is however pretty damn important because in any Thief game one has to use it a lot... it's lockpicking.
If you look closely (it's really hard to tell), the little "loading" symbol is actually two lockpicks working at a keyhole. So that's a good sign, at least!
"Choice one: we flank them using what military men called tactics, and what religious men call divine inspiration. Or, we charge at them head on screaming various obscenities, in what military men call bravery and religious men also call divine inspiration."

Offline Starfox

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2013, 08:41:13 PM »
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If you look closely (it's really hard to tell), the little "loading" symbol is actually two lockpicks working at a keyhole. So that's a good sign, at least!

Oh, I wasn't saying that I feared there wouldn't be any lockpicking -- I assume there will be -- but that I'm pretty curious what form it will take compared to T1/TMA or TDS so it would have been nice to see some lockpicking "action" in the video  ;)

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There's one thing I forgot to mention that bothered me- near the end, a fairly large wooden crate (that has to weigh at least a couple hundred pounds even if it's empty) is knocked off its rope and crashes to the ground... and nobody reacts at all, not even the guard about fifty feet away. I'm HOPING that it was an oversight of some sort.

I caught that too but it might be a glitch. When you see the video after the crate crash-landing, the "demonstrator" immediately turns around to look at the guards like if he was expecting a reaction and as this guy probably ran this demo a hundred times, I suppose that he DID expect a reaction but for some reason it didn't trigger. Something they'll have to fix like possibly a gazillion over problems in the months remaining before release.


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Offline The Rogue Wolf

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2013, 04:30:18 PM »
Aaaaand we have a trailer with a release date! February 25th, 2014.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Q3QQHurZrrU

I'm getting a heavy Dishonored feel from this, honestly. (One of these days I need to finish that game.) But there also seems to be a bit of social commentary (the rich foreclosing on the poor, jobs being lost in the name of progress), a theme revolving around fire, what seems to be a mysterious leader of the downtrodden (taking bets now as to whether he has some secret motivation), and what might be a precursor to a Hammerite.

I'm not wildly disappointed, but I'm not at all overwhelmed either.
"Choice one: we flank them using what military men called tactics, and what religious men call divine inspiration. Or, we charge at them head on screaming various obscenities, in what military men call bravery and religious men also call divine inspiration."

Offline bobdog

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Re: Thief 4
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2013, 01:34:52 PM »
Unfortunately, Thief will have an inevitable comparison to Dishonored, which was so good (from all accounts, as I also haven't played it yet) that if Thief isn't just AS good, will get knocked, even though they might be different play styles. As long as you can climb around the City and steal stuff, I'll be satisfied.

 

everything